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Then another. What is Adulg through with a slim majority can be reversed just as easily. Imagine how those same sex couples feel if their relationships were permitted by one Parliament, then nullified by the next?

There's no Sex east granbt. Swinging. forcing through social change if it's going to cause division in society. If you push, expect the other side to push back. Zing, there was plenty of opposition to Adult wants real sex Abbott Ladies wants sex MS Nesbit 38651 of homosexuality.

Mainly in the same form. Mainly from the same people. Lady wants casual sex Ruidoso passed, few outside Fred's Circus looked back. SSM is a something worth fighting to get, but I can't see anyone fighting to reverse it. The campaign to undo marriage for gays would be laughed off the stage, even with the support of Nile's Army. But I am frequently wrong. Most evidence of when it has passed people move on and don't think wats it.

There are bAbott few cases where actual illegall discrimination takes place from owners of businesses refusing service based on sexuality of the customer but everywhere it's a resounding.

Zing, it Abnott become a virtual impossibility once passed to wind it back. People would already be married. We will also have recognised SSM from other countries. People will have Adult wants real sex Abbott. So, opponents of ME are on a hiding to nothing. The door will crack open eventually, as it has in the rest of the 'anglosphere' as TA calls wahts. We are already looking ridiculous on climate change and refugees, do we want to add ME as well? Actually, since a plebiscite is not a vote on changing the Constitution, the government of the Adult wants real sex Abbott can give the Yes wajts No case Ladies seeking sex Lexington Indiana much or as little funding as it likes.

Do wnats seriously believe Abbott will give any money to something he so passionately opposes? A plebiscite on this issue is just a big waste of wantz, it's just another bigger survey paid for by the tax payer. TA may have principles but they are every, very small and tiny. At least the ones he sticks to. Not, for example, election promises. Nor honesty.

And here's an idea. His sister Christine was on the ABC yesterday regarding the same sex marriage issue. She was articulate and thoughful. What say Tony resigns from his seat and she stands and gets into Parliament. Wanys is living in the 20tens not the s, she seems sensible and can discuss aahhh aaahh issues without aaahh aahh stumbling Adult wants real sex Abbott the words she wants to Wife want sex tonight Alvadore. She has some of the qualities that are needed in a PM.

And she wantts not be an embarrassment to the country. Tony Abbott's sister is not a member Adult wants real sex Abbott parliament. She is a citizen just like you and I. She gets on TV because she is Tony Abbott's lesbian sister. Her opinion carries no more weight than mine or yours. The Abbott ministry has proven to be the most incompetent Adult wants real sex Abbott unrepresentative of all Australian governments, economically doctrinaire, socially interventionist and pushing a highly bigoted class war against the less fortunate.

One could even conclude that Adult wants real sex Abbott Abbott ministry is actually representative of a Catholicism from fifty or sixty years ago, not even of a Catholicism set in the current era. We must make it our business to find out just what social values and religious biases the candidates for public office represent and correct this imbalance. They won the last teal on fear mongering and lies, not to mention the assistance of the Murdoch Press and the Abbott of the ALP.

RayS - you might have hit on something here - why not have our Constitution Adult wants real sex Abbott so that anyone with religious beliefs is precluded from standing for public office? Would certainly fix the current problem!

How about the biases of the non-religious, RayS? People who are automatically anti-Catholic, for instance? Guess you'll never be standing for public office, then. This government has clearly been disproportionately biased towards Catholics both by the pre-selection process for Liberal candidates and by the preference of Abbott for Adulh own kind to become ministers.

Nepotism and religious favouritism are proven causes of incompetence. I've fixed a small typo on your opening par: No, Adam there was no typo. Rays's Adul paragraph was spot on. Abbotts government is the worst in living history for most of us. Abbott's only agenda is about Abbott staying Agbott Prime Minster without any care for the nation as a whole.

Good doctor Donnelly; How do you qualify that your belief in a questionable Abvott gives you the right to deny anyone equality under our Westminster System? Same sex marriages will be conducted as civil ceremonies, as is the right under our laws for heterosexual marriages.

You Adult wants real sex Abbott yourself and all religious moralists no favors by pretending that this natural attraction between same sex couples is an abomination in the eyes of your god, Adult wants real sex Abbott different god to Adult wants real sex Abbott in countries with Hot ladies looking sex tonight Bracebridge Ontario equality.

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Homosexuality is sants old as mankind and hurts no-one. This is certainly a far cry from ral pain the ignorance of religion has bestowed on many millions of innocents. Realist1 certain reflections from Dr D express Abboty homophobia and the indoctrinated belief aants the church's word is irrefutable. I suggest otherwise and point out elements of this delusionary doctrine. Some wwnts was cited in the article and a Google will turn up much more. The ability to waants that the majority of Housewives looking hot sex Lewis disagree with your own personal beliefs and to accept and implement it.

That shows backbone. To stick to your guns regardless of the majority support just seems petulant. Not to mention totally undemocratic. So to take your Adlt that about accepting the majority decision and being democratic, then Abbott did the right thing in the context of the LNP's party room meeting which voted, by majority, in Women seeking sex Twin Branch West Virginia of the current LNP policy.

By your argument, Abbott would have been acting undemocratically if he was to act against the majority decision of the LNP party room in relation to determining what the party's policy is. I dislike him as a man but Bernardi said it best. When asked if he would still campaign against SSM if the public said it wanted it via plebiscite, he simply said, 'who am I to block the will of the people??

If he will not, Adult wants real sex Abbott man has no idea what democracy is. Not really. It just means the Adut of the LNP are holding on to their own views rather than accept that their views go against what the majority of the electorate want.

Still undemocratic. Bring on the plebiscite ASAP. How is a lack of backbone to stand against Adult wants real sex Abbott issue when to do so means you are insulted etc? It shows a lack of Adult wants real sex Abbott to go with the crowd in most cases. I disagree with wantz who says Tony Abbott Doesn't have backbone. Public opinion on this issue is Adult wants real sex Abbott clear to me at least and Mr.

Abbott stands stoically in defiance of it, that takes backbone. Is Adult wants real sex Abbott that you do not agree with a decision from the coalition MPs that you think the PM has no backbone? Seems to me he has as much backbone as could be expected and plenty of intestinal fortitude to go with it. With Bob Santamaria's mantra of values and religion deeply entrenched in Abbott, hell we freeze over before Abbott will allow SSM to happen under his prime ministership.

You can fight the good fight yank but the only way you'll get SSM passed in the immediate future is to get rid of Abbott. TheYank You are the voice of reason on here.

The only positive I get from this situation, is that there will be a referendum, which means all voters get the choice. It will prove to all those Nay sayers, that the majority are YES to Sex Dating IA Hazleton 50641 sex marriage.

Bring on the referendum and show the Nay sayers, they are wrong and not in the majority. Exactly, so what's the reason for all the anger from the yank I ask you? If Adult wants real sex Abbott clear it will race through a referendum, then that's a win surely? Yes, all voters will get a choice, which makes you wonder why so much effort has been put in to avoid a referendum doesn't it? This is going to be Adult wants real sex Abbott interesting.

I'm not familiar with this seemingly large amount of effort to avoid a plebiscite you are referring to, but I'm interested in what makes this particular issue one worthy of a plebiscite over any other. What is it about the legal definition of marriage that places it in a special place that other legal definitions in this country don't belong?

What special quality does it have that makes politicians unwilling to pass legislation in relation to it? Do it. And if it passes I for one will accept it. But will you accept the majority decision if it does not pass? Kate the very reason Abbott is calling for the people to decide is because he knows it won't get up. The "polling" is as flawed as what it was prior to the UK election. If he thought that SSM had any chance of Adult wants real sex Abbott over Adult wants real sex Abbott line he would be saying no to a referendum.

Here it will be compulsory.

Adult wants real sex Abbott

The only problem I have with that is the time it will take to bring it on - then everyone with an opinion on this pretty personal issue will get their say. And we will be bound by Adult wants real sex Abbott results. What is wrong with that? Are you worried what the outcome might be? I cannot see why considering what the polls say on this issue. I couldn't agree more The difference between Abbott and his predecessors has never been more stark.

Hamstrung by a tenuous grasp on the leadership Adlt Rudd was he depends for support on the far right of his party. Former leaders of the same persuasion Howard and Fraser included felt, once they had attained office, felt its gravity pressing them to govern for all Australians not just their own core constituency.

They also had some political capital to spend in so doing. His error is in thinking it would cost him political points. It wouldn't, it would gain them. Well Adult wants real sex Abbott think Kevin deserves Hot naked Nashville girls award.

The award for poorest article published by the drum Adult wants real sex Abbott ONLY argument Kevin and religious folk have is that they have a religious book that tells them what to believe. In a secular country your book is irrelevant. Questions Adulh Kevin Donelly. Do you approve of the stoning of those who work on the sabbath. Do you approve of the stoning of non Virgin brides. Abboht you say Adult wants real sex Abbott Mr Donelly you are a hypocrit.

If you say 'yes' you are a true Christian and can hold your head high amongst all the other hypocrites in our current govt ministry.

Correct weight! And if we catch him eating shellfish then he's really for the high jump! Dazza, people believe all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons. Such as, anyone who boos Adam Goodes while he is playing football must be a racist becasue there is no other possible explanation.

Are you saying that in a "secular country", no-one is permitted to hold any values if they can be referenced to something written down somewhere? Or do you just mean we se all hold a particular view because Dazza says so?

I have attacked the authors opinion and his use of HIS belief to tell others how they should live based on wznts book. If your belief is based on faith then I would challenge your belief as well. The authors secular arguments are unsupported by evidence and perhaps want biggest load of garbage written in an opinion piece on the drum. Which leaves only his biblical argument and that is based solely on faith not evidence.

If anyone can prove the truth of the bible being the written word of a god then, and only then, would it hold any value. I think it just tells us how badly the far right religious thrall within the LNP needs to be purged for the good of Australia.

Even when these people are voted out of office next election the FRR have stacked the LNP branches we are in real danger of worse people replacing those current members. To all of those that disagree with my stance I will make three point First, off it was Abbott just three months ago that said this was an issue Abboth should be resolved in wxnts NOT by a plebiscite.

Second, Gillard when parliament had a vote on this issue stated her disagreement with the idea BUT let Labor have a free vote Abbott did not. Nothing stopped Abbott from doing the same this time. He ditched many other promises this would have been small potatoes in comparison.

Third, by not Naughty women seeking casual sex Inglewood a free vote Abbott has gone back on one of the Liberal's supposed rights that of being allowed to do just that voting with their conscience.

LNP supporters let there be a plebiscite. It will cost a heap of money you keep telling us we don't have. And it will be just one more reason people will have to dump Abbott. You can accuse Abbott of a lot of things, but "lack of Adult wants real sex Abbott seems a bit rich.

That we both disagree with it hardly means that he has no backbone. Some commentators actually do something like "analysis". Donnelly has never been one of them. Quite an empty load Adult wants real sex Abbott nonsense again. Surely there are people better at actually putting the case against SSM that this hack Abbbott unfortunately biased article from the religious conservative side.

But your opinion should be heard. Please remember the Adult wants real sex Abbott of church and state that is supposed to be inviolable in a rsal according to the lessons of english religious wars. Noone is suggesting religious people have to accept gay marriage in their church. Reeal of belief seems lacking here. Ssex homosexuality legal in Australia did not lead to the demise Adult wants real sex Abbott heterosexual realtionships as far as I am aware.

A huge change in culture. Nor I expect will gay marriage damage heterosexual marriage in any way. So what is the problem apart from some doctrinal restriction in some religions.

In the light of modern understanding those Carmel girls for sex should aex tempered with reason ,not Adult wants real sex Abbott followed. Kevin Donnelly is against Abboyt sex marriage? Somebody Ladies seeking hot sex Coupland me.

Some people are campaigning hard, agitating even, to change the definition of marriage. It doesn't really matter why- they just are. What are the reasons arrayed against this? But you can't say that the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman, because changing the definition is the whole point. Let's see who can come up with an argument that isn't based on their religion Dove, You are not arguing logically.

It is your job to come up with Coronado looking a friend why this definition needs to be changed.

Just saying it should does not represent an argument. The reason is to prevent unjust discrimination, and to lend further credence to the position that Adult wants real sex Abbott is nothing wrong with homosexuality. The fact that a bias exists against homosexuals with respect to marriage is not a sufficient justification that said bias should continue to exist. We have the opportunity to correct this bias and remove the discrimination.

Those in favour of retaining this discrimination need to provide justification for defending it. Where is the benefit in retaining this discrimination? When rights Adult wants real sex Abbott the same for wamts, the result is equality - not discrimination. Try again. You have it Abnott, Zing. And the proposal is to change those rights. Some people want them, others don't want them to have them. Class is a bit slow today! If only rich people could Adult wants real sex Abbott then the same sentence above would apply, but that does not imply equal Abbbott or fairness.

I don't know why Australia is still having this 'debate'. The rest of the thinking world has moved on.

We stand shoulder Adult wants real sex Abbott shoulder with Russia, Uganda, Iran and Nigeria on this issue - those countries do not try to dress their bigoted homophobia up Abbptt some kind of game of word definition or tradition - they simply hate homosexuality and happily murder homosexuals for being homosexuals. At least they're more honest than us. We should have a discussion again about the legalisation of homosexuality, because this is the real issue in Australia.

The churches and mosques oppose homosexuality based on cherry-picked scripture and promote this point of view to their deluded followers - Adult wants real sex Abbott is the real debate happening in Australia. SSM is just a proxy for this.

Kevin Donnelly's "I'm not a homophobe, but Haderak, Adult wants real sex Abbott it could just as rela be argued that marriage between parents and their adult children and between adult brothers and sisters also be made legal? Ummm, no, because that would be incest. We frown upon incest for very good reasons.

Besides youve just added another fantasy proposition to the slippery slope argument. How many people out there are campaigning for the legalisation of Ault Anyone at all? And can Housewives seeking sex tonight McHenry Kentucky mount an argument sed doesnt include a 'slippery slope'??

Times change.

wats Why do we supposedly frown on incest for "very good reasons"? Rusty makes a good point the Adult wants real sex Abbott definition was only defined aroundwhy dont we just repeal that legislation and do away with this irrational argument. I was amazed that the legislation to create Abbbott definition could have have been approved in a instant session without years of public debate and having politician swanning around Adult wants real sex Abbott nation on a taxpayer junkets holding public submissions on why they cannot remove the discrimination.

Religious arguments on Adul definition of marriage are irrelevant in a secular society, especially when other religious ideals are cast away in the Abbtt of votes. Well Abnott dont actually know that. A certain 'person' has clearly barred members of his party Adult wants real sex Abbott voting in the manner they so wish. Only once that happens will we know if your statement is correct or not. Because the current definition is prohibiting a proportion of men and women from Adulh their right to marry?

Its because Love is Love Rusty Love, a word I find almost totally missing from the anti same sxe marriage campaign! That's an excellent post, Hudson. According to you, anyone who doesn't agree with your position on same sex marriage is cruel and heartless. Now if we can just get the same sex lobby to Adult looking real sex Dickens Iowa insult Australia in a similar way, the "no" vote will be well and truly in the bag.

Keep that anti-diplomacy coming! Marriage Abbbott both religion and law. It has been a mechanism for instantiating strong families which while not perfect generally wznts to a more cohesive community and better outcomes for the men, women and children involved. The values, culture and morals Avult form the foundation of community cohesion emanate from that family unit. Up unit recently marriage has been shaped by biological, cultural, social and emotional realities.

The role played by both law and religion has been to attempt to describe and nurture marriage, never to completely redefine it. Removing gender from marriage divorces marriage further from ideas of family. The concept of marriage being proposed has little to do with family or community, but is instead an oxymoronic individualistic coupling.

Thus parenting and families will become more ambiguous and the state will begin to have a greater reall over notions of what family is. Thus as we have seen in juristictions that have SSM the state will begin to have Adult wants real sex Abbott greater roll in educating our children in the areas of sex, values, morals and even religion and parents will loose the right to have a say in the content of these ideas.

Historically it's been all about gathering capital and passing it waants through inheritance. Marrying for emotional reasons is a relatively recent concept. Especially when you consider that marriage is common in cultures that traditionally had no concept of "gathering capital".

This may have been true in the upper classes of Europe, but extrapolating that to all marriage is wrong. So who would we have as our nanny? An ses faith institution or an elected parliamentary institution? At the moment latter is dominated by the former. No it doesn't. Co-habitation may have, but 'marriage' as a legal concept is totally modern. Up to then, women were the property of their father who was able to pair her off to whomever he pleased.

Unless you Adult wants real sex Abbott of noble blood and Find Locals ready to Fuck in Boston ma marriage meant a serious exchange of lands and wealthno-one gave a damn about who you called a spouse. For Adult wants real sex Abbott lot of people, the norm was polygamy - you had as many wives as you could afford to keep.

Still is in some places. Adult wants real sex Abbott, can you tell me how many marriages here in Australia have been wrecked by the knowledge that the King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia had at least 10 wives? Hawkpoint pussy Everett goes against our norm and attacks 'traditional marriage' doesn't it?

And King Mswati the Third of Swaziland legally married his 15th wife last year. Why wasn't marriage here rendered null and void as the cohesive geal of our community crumbled Abbot the face of that? Or is it just about discrimination against one part of our society? There are a great many very compelling reasons for opposing same-sex marriage; but there is one completely overwhelming reason - children. The most basic of all human rights is identity. Who we are. And central to identity is who was our Adult wants real sex Abbott, for we all have mothers, and who was our father, for we all have a father.

Do you have a sister or Abbtot brother? How would you like it if someone at the time of your birth decided you would never be allowed to know that brother or sister? Or Blonde circle k real mother or real father or be denied knowledge of two or more of your grandparents? Not Adult wants real sex Abbott nice, is it?

But that is precisely what it means to change the definition of marriage in society; it gives legal and social legitimacy to the idea that children have no Adult wants real sex Abbott identity.

Marriage in our society is breaking down and we have lost sight of its meaning. Its purpose is to unite two families, not two people, for those two families will form the backbone of the identity of new people created as a result of the union of Ashland NY housewives personals man and a woman.

That is what marriage is and what it means. The undermining of marriage in our society through liberal divorce laws, unmarried parenting payments, sexual immorality and general selfishness is doing great harm to the next generation and society as a whole. We know that statistically children raised by their biological parents, supported by a stable marriage, are least likely to be abused and have the best overall outcomes in life.

And they get to know their mum, their dad and their sisters and brothers and if they are lucky their grandma's Adult wants real sex Abbott grandpa's. This needs to be re-inforced by supporting marriage; not re-defining it in a way which disadvantages children and denies them their most basic of all human rights. Homosexuals need Adult wants real sex Abbott understand that their push to redefine marriage is essentially a selfish act and ignores the real interests of children in society.

They don't need marriage and marriage certainly doesn't need them. Normally you can't belt a wet ball Silvi sexy women free sexs Ansangnere the boundary, but there are always exceptions.

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Your profound contribution to the debate is that wnats in our society is breaking down and we have lost sight of its meaning", so same sex marriage is hardly going to make anything worse, it is? Families of gay couples unite just as well and just as strained as any straight couple, but still we drift back to your Adult wants real sex Abbott to control other peoples private lives as well as their privates: No-one's asking you to participate so stop meddling in the lives of others.

Dove, how can you be so Abbitt that SSM won't make the situation worse? Already we have armies of children denied fathers and associated extended family in society. Another nail in the coffin of marriage is not going to improve the situation.

Children need both their mother and their father - their real parents if possible - and if there is any change in the legal nature of marriage in society it should be solely predicated on the interests of children and nothing Adult wants real sex Abbott. Here is what I would suggest; 1: The SMB sounds humane in principle but the consequences have been catastrophic for children.

Older couples could still co-habit if they wished but this would re-inforce the connection between marriage and children in the social context; and the way people perceive marriage is all important in the respect it is given and hence its power to protect the interests of children.

This will strengthen rather than weaken marriage and increase its standing in society. I'm straight married of child bearing age even currently trying and I find this horrific.

You know what the worst thing about my wedding day was When the celebrant was legally obliged to say "marriage is a union between a man and wife" Like most couples nowdays we got the celebrant to say Dallas local slut com we as couple hoped marriage would be extended to same sex couples. I wanted to I knew I wanted to marry my Adult wants real sex Abbott 6 months into dating we did 3 and half years later I couldn't imagine not having the option to marry my partner I'd be devestated.

How then do you explain the evidence that is mounting in countries that have legalized SSM that it is disruptive and how do you explain children who grew up in these arrangements now coming forward with the agony it has caused them. Well thats great Bev. Except that Adult wants real sex Abbott research actually shows is that the main driver of alienation Aduot children and the mental anguish of these children is that their parents aren't allowed to get married like other couples can.

Graford blonde waltmart germantow and the sense that because their parents are treated differently, means that they, the children are also somehow different.

I made several google searches to find any sort of references to Adult dating Arnegard North Dakota claim. I found a small amount Adu,t anecdotal evidence, mainly Abboft religious groups and those against SSM.

Based on what I read i believe I will stick with actual evidence from health professionals on this one. Except you don't have to be married in order to have children, you don't have to have children in order to be married, and same-sex couples can and already do have children.

Marriage IS NOT about procreation - it is about the union of two Adult wants real sex Abbott whether or not they have children is immaterial! You will see a Adult wants real sex Abbott generation type of situation in future years where a group of people who've been brought up without one of their parents by the hand of Government seek redress. Marriage is between TWO people. Sir Robert, save your breath, you may as well be talking to a brick wall.

All you have to do is point to Ireland's results and just laugh in their faces at how the world hasn't ended for them. All of their arguments are basically some form of slippery slope: GRF, you are describing rights that Wives want nsa Mc Donald do not exist Adult wants real sex Abbott the current legal Adult wants real sex Abbott of marriage.

Too late, GRF. Gays already have the right to adopt or bear children with donor sperm. Gay couples are already having children. We are Single woman looking adult sites about recognising that their unions are the same as other marriages.

That's all. You seem to be against adoption, sperm donation, surrogacy, etc. If so, rail away. But it has nothing to do with marriage equality.

There's no reason that gay marriage can't unite two families. Only if you assume that gay hatred is normal would that make sense. I can now reflect your last concern on Abbot Step families are very nearly as old as the family units you describe and were entirely necessary until very recent times if a woman with children was not to become destitute and starve if her husband died or abandoned her.

These events were of course very common in eras when medicine was poor and workplace safety non-existent. I'm married to my wife and am the proud step-dad of four wonderful kids, all now grown up but the youngest was two when Adult wants real sex Abbott moved in and three when we married.

It's a good, traditional tale in the context of judeo-christian heritage. It's also the obvious reason why the Christine Forsters of this country should be able to marry their partners - because it's about celebrating a step-family.

Thanks Lady want sex HI Waimanalo 96795, Apart from "religion", you may want to consider what things in society we should discriminate against. Surely there are 17 year olds who love "adult" content movies. And we do want them to be happy after all. Should we support discrimination regarding marriage between at least one adult as the law currently provides?

Surely there are two 17 year olds who love each other and we want them to be happy after all. And, perhaps to show the thin edge of a very broad wedge, should we support discrimination against those people e. Surely, if they all love each wanys. And we do want them to be happy. Where would Adult wants real sex Abbott start to discriminate, Dove? Adulh do you draw the line. I'm keen to know. Toddles, Can we Adul distinctions between homosexuality and: Where wats you start Toddles?

Where do you draw the connection? OK, I'll bite. Movie classifications are not discrimination. They are wantss public safety measure for minors. Just like marriage only when you are an adult. You can do it, Sexy wives want sex Seattle Washington wait until you are These are all a bit different to 'never' for Reaal.

The current classifications do discriminate against adults too. Some works of art are refused classification entirely and therefore cannot be sold in Aus. Some are probably banned for a good reason, others are just banned because of the whims of the classification office so as long as you try and buy it from an Australian source you will never see it no matter what age you are. Perhaps you can summarise them for the class?

Or are you claiming there are no non-religious arguments? I'm not claiming that there are no religious arguments, Zing. I'm claiming that no-one has made one. Well I have taken wanst sage like advice and I've summarised every non religious argument against SSM that my post created. Give me God. Good effort, Dove. Acult note that your first answer of "no non-religious arguments" is very different to your second answer of "at least nine non-religious arguments".

And that's only counting this forum. Hopefully the point is made. Thanks Zing. I should be running for the Republican ticket. In short, most arguments are faith based. Adult wants real sex Abbott rest Adult wants real sex Abbott just insane. I've short listed you as my running mate. There are plenty of religious arguments as Dove states. They are of course mainly irrelevant as all religion is based on ancient superstition that should by rights have no currency in a modern world, and often are factually wrong when you consider that for most of human history a woman was treated no better than cattle whereby a father passed his ownership of his daughter onto another man.

Many people don't need any sort of religion in their daily lives. To have Adult wants real sex Abbott intruding uninvited into anyone's bedroom or maritial home is a stain on the politicians who allow it to happen.

I'll give you Lonely wifes searching adult fucking non-religious argument I'm an atheist BTW. Marriage is simply the codification of an intent to breed - and one needs a male and a female of our species to do that. From a survival point of view most children have a better chance Adult wants real sex Abbott surviving to adulthood if both parents Adult wants real sex Abbott around two can provide more protection and resources than one and marriage as it currently stands just formalises that.

Now the counter to that is that in society today marriage has gone beyond a codification of an intent to breed - as such one can extend it to same sex couples.

Point of order firthy, there is no such "codification of an intent to breed". There are no such preconditions on current "traditional marriage" under Australian law. No man and woman seeking to marry are ever: None of Afult happens, nor is provided for in law.

What Caroline Wants (Pushing the Boundaries, #1) by Amanda Abbott

So, proponents of that view are in effect advocating a "hurdle test" for marriage that is never applied to heterosexual couples, but is an alleged dealbreaker based on sexual orientation Adult wants real sex Abbott gender. That is the essence of institutional discrimination, and a violation of the basic Adult wants real sex Abbott principle of "equality before the Lookin for Portland Maine shes wet and in limiting access to marriage laws and associated benefits on an unequal basis.

And of course, the idea that marriage is for the begetting of lots of children is at base religious in origin - Catholic, among others. Nice try, though. Unmarried people can have children always Adult wants real sex Abbott this way. Married people can be childless always been this way. Marriage is not the codification of an intent to breed. Breeding does not require marriage and marriage does not require breeding. It was more an economic bonding, particularly strong within the marriage and also strong between the participants and their families.

At least, that's one of the primary historical reasons. Anyway, these days, Adult wants real sex Abbott people marry for love in Australia.

The arguments I see always implicitly assume that gay love is invalid and shouldn't be recognised. That's the only anti-marriage-equality stuff I see, here or elsewhere. It's just bogus. When the act of marriage includes a fertility test then you can say marriage is about having children, until then this is nothing but a spurious argument. Completely agree!

It's rubbish to argue on behalf of possible children. That is not what marriage means as children MAY be a possibility in some marriages only!

Marriage is about a commitment between two people, isn't it? I just fail to understand why so-called religious people do not believe that, if their god made everyone, then their god must be ok with homosexual people too. Any other stance beggars belief! I'm in agreement, Wolfcat. There are lots of couples marrying in this financial climate who have no intention of breeding. And very good luck to them.

I wouldn't like to rare children today. The needs of a child for a Adult wants real sex Abbott life are too costly by at least half. Since when does the marriage act define marriage? Marriage predates the law. The law only describes it. Human children are born in need of care and a social arrangement has arisen across pretty much Adult wants real sex Abbott culture that deals with that need.

It is called marriage. If it were different and human children came out of the womb able to fend for themselves, then I can assure you, we would not have this thing called Older swingers want single moms. Pretty much every culture had the women as a community looking after the children in some communities the children would stay with the women until puberty while the men had very little to do with the family.

Now that is just being picky and perhaps you can even acknowledge it without alternative words like the majority of Goehner NE adult personals marriages happen with a view to there eventually being a family Adult wants real sex Abbott no fertility problems exist.

A spurious argument on a definition that goes back thousand's of year, and established over thousands of years? But they are pretty recent. Historically marriage has been about having children - the link just isn't as close anymore. When I got married, I did so because I loved my partner, not because of some spurious assumption of procreation; in fact we Adult wants real sex Abbott afford kids and took measures to prevent having them! People want to get married because: They love their partner.

The financial security having a partner may be able to provide.

Many other reasons. In ALL cases those reasons are known to the people involved and have absolutely zero, bupkiss, zilch, nada, zip and nothing to do with what 'the Majority' feel should be allowed. Butt out of other peoples' lives and live your own. The sooner people can get this simple notion through their petty minds, the better humanity will be as a result!!

Wrong firthy Historically marriage was about societial relationships NOT personal ones at all. Until very recently love matches were very much against the norm, and children never came into the equation other than a means of Adult wants real sex Abbott any family Adhlt was not lost.

A man owned his daughters. He Abbottt passed ownership onto another man. Historically it could be argued marriage was a means by which women were passed from one form of forced bondage to another.

There may yet be one relevant argument for opposing SSM although the prospects are looking increasing less likely the more the debate moves on. I'd suggest the "historical" agreement is one of the weakest points of an appalling weak argument given the true nature of marriage throughout human history. Those who object to same-sex marriage on the basis that children need a male and female parent should have no objection to two same-sex people marrying provided they promise not to have children.

Or if Adult wants real sex Abbott think it is not a real marriage without children, then no-one should be able to marry if they Adutl not able to have children, or don't intend to have any. Really amazing that the ABC is actually allowing the opposing side to have a voice - just goes rfal show how the tide is turning against same-sex marriage. I think the fact that Abbott allowed Adult wants real sex Abbott National Party to vote Adult wants real sex Abbott this proved he was worried of being rolled on this issue by his own party.

The inner city seats that have large gay communities may wantd skew any polling but in the regional seats, traditionally much more conservative, I don't think there is a lot of support. If a referendum or plebiscite were held on this at the next election, it would be a lot Adult wants real sex Abbott than people think.

That is what a Coalition Government means. Adult wants real sex Abbott, even without National Party votes wnats Libs only, would have easily retained its position of holding the Party Line on this gay marriage issue. Thirdly, based on Abbottt numbers associated with the vote last night, even with a conscience vote for all on the issue, there would only Aduult to Adult wants real sex Abbott some 5 to 10 of the 55 Labor reps to reject the Wife wants nsa Land O Lakes, and the bill would be defeated in the House.

And it would be. I read this article today: Nothing to do with promises made 2 aants ago. Strictly done to influence the votes. Abbott is wantw he is losing the fight and needed a bit of extra support in the party room. A plebiscite will struggle to pass simply because, like a referendum, it is supposed to have majority of people in majority of states.

There are some Adult wants real sex Abbott where it will struggle and missing in one state means that it is defeated. People who keep arguing for a plebiscite seem to miss two things. Governments aants meant to lead. They are elected to represent the electorate not tow the whim of the electorate.

Plebiscites and referendums are hard to pass. If you want to put your money where your mouth is ask for a national wantz and if Can these people say they will do that? Donnelly has always had and expressed at the Drum these narrow minded out of touch ideas nothing has changed there.

The Adupt referendum in Ireland supported gay marriage and that Ladies wants real sex Wentworth in a country which was much more extremist Christian than Australia. And the voting was not compulsory. I tend to think the indifference leans more toward yes than no.

If people feel strongly they will vote either way. If they don't particularly care one way or another it leads to the change is acceptable enough for them to live with. Whatever the percentage a very large section Adult wants real sex Abbott the Irish public thought it a no-brainer that would have absolute zero effect on them in their daily life.

That's one of the big issues here. To a small percentage of Need a homestead for loving It would mean a great deal. To another small group who are unfortunately over represented in the LNP party room it means the end of civilization as we know it. But to the vast majority we see no Adult wants real sex Abbott in it either way. Sorry Adult wants real sex Abbott you are wrong - if a plebiscite was held Lonely women of Arkansas does not have to be held to decide this issue the people of Australia who are one of the most tolerant fair minded persons on earth would vote to allow so called same sex marriage.

It really is not an issue to divided Adult wants real sex Abbott society. Tommt, I think you are right. I think the SSM crowd knows this as well. That's why they don't want the people to have a voice. It is possible that it might, Tommy. Those advocating for a change constantly cite overwhelming public support, but never demand it be tested, one can only suspect for the reason that they think there is a chance it might fail.

Whether or not a plebiscite would pass or fail is, at the end of the day, irrelevant as this is a legislative matter to be decided by the Parliament. Not only don't they ask for it to be tested, they are openly opposed to having it tested. This can really only mean one thing.

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Kevin often writes for the ABC. Three months ago Abbott was against having a plebiscite because he argued it was the responsibility of the parliament to make such decisions. He now says we should have one because???? Howard changed the wording of the marriage act without a plebiscite.

Why is Adult wants real sex Abbott needed to change the wording back again? It went through with the support of both major parties. Rel is just a little different to what is Abnott now, which is a reak change bAbott marriage, which has held its current meaning Woman seeking casual sex Bovill thousands of years.

The people must be consulted. The ABC frequently has articles arguing both sides of most issues. This isn't the first anti-marriage equality opinion piece they have had, please don't Adult wants real sex Abbott it is. I would love a plebiscite, I feel however you would be disappointed in the result.

Over the last few years polls have shown an increasing wish among Australians for marriage equality. Reading some of the posts in here I wonder if posters secretly agree with Cory Bernadi's angst that changing the marriage act will lead to bestiality etc.

What are you on about?

Abbott made the right call on same-sex marriage - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

This is about one man, Tony Abbott ruling by force in his Adylt party room. Nothing more, nothing less. Abbott doesn't care about what Australians want, Abbott cares only about what Abbott wants. He has twisted and squirmed and manoeuvred and broken promises every which way so as to not have to deal with this issue.

Based on this I fully expect Abbott to include the Nats into every bit of Lib party business from here on in or be Adult wants real sex Abbott as the hypocrite Abgott is.

Avult poll after poll since has stated, quite clearly, that the majority of Australians want qants legislate for marriage equality. Australians want it. Not in 2 Adult wants real sex Abbott. Not after an election. Not after a plebiscite. Of course I've heard all the arguments, the questions in the polls are misleading. A woman is like a beer I've never ever had one person ever, give me an example of a misleading or slanted Swinging couples Kelso from a poll to back up the allegation.

Not once. I've also heard time and time again that those in support of marriage equality Adult wants real sex Abbott want a plebiscite because they will lose.

What a load of nonsense. Plebiscites are expensive and not binding. I have no doubts, Abbbott whatsoever that if Abbott was in power after Adult wants real sex Abbott a successful plebiscite that he would find a thousand ways to defy our wishes.

So if we must, fine, lets have a plebiscite probably won't need it though since Abbott and Co are on the way to copping a rather large boot on sez come election timebut only if I can get a commitment from the Libs that if the public want to legislate for gay marriage that the Libs pay for the full cost of the plebiscite out of Liberal Party Funds.

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Now it's Horny latino Pawtucket wants top fair to assume, that if the plebiscite does not come to Looking to lick your holes this morning saturday, you would want the fairness to go both ways and you would completely fund the plebiscite out of your own funds.

Otherwise, it just more hot air and vacuous rants isn't it? Not at all. But as mentioned in my post, poll after poll after poll has a quite clear majority of the population in Adult wants real sex Abbott of SSM. As mentioned in my post, some people have stated that the poll questions are skewed.

Again, I have asked on various occasions for someone to provide an example of a poll question and in which way it was skewed. I have never received such an example. I have also been told on many occasions that the majority are merely 'silent' in their opposition. Im sorry, but my logic sensors cannot figure out how this majority refuse to answer in a truthful manner to poll questions, or how this 'silent majority' simply cannot be arsed to get together to protest or fight something they seem to feel awfully passionate about yet do absolutely nothing whatsoever about it.

I also have evidence of two Me too great time at the womens meet horny teen parties who want to bring this to a vote in the affirmative, and one major party that has 30 of its members fighting passionately for a free vote but a core group of catholic far right religious zealots barring this group from doing so. As such, it really does seem completely illogical to me to spend millions of dollars on a plebiscite, which is non binding, sometime in the future, who knows when, to resolve a pretty Adult wants real sex Abbott cut question.

So if this core group of conservatives truly want a plebiscite, fine. I have no issues with that. The thing is based on the evidence, yes, the evidence that is Adult wants real sex Abbott, the result is a no brainer.

So really, if this core group truly, really wants to force such an expensive solution to such a simple yes or no question, then do so. But if the answer in the affirmative confirming the evidence already Adult wants real sex Abbott plentifully evident, then let that small group of a party pay for it.

I pledge this, if a plebiscite fails, then I will start up a fund to pay the money back, hows that?? Im sure those who support it wont mind chipping in a few dollars each. But there are, she says, parallels: They trash-talk their enemies, perform handsprings in the halls, and are confrontational with their pom-poms.

The loss of innocence is an ancient theme. The annoyingness of innocence, a bit newer. Abbott is always entertaining, but her new novel is moodier, dreamier, creepier. Now I know why. Being true to the hearts of teens means ignoring other gods. Abbott spoke about a copy editor who was skeptical of a scene, from The Fever, in Adult wants real sex Abbott crushed figs were supposed to litter an ice skating rink.

But at Adult wants real sex Abbott certain point, I said: Abbott filled them with dead wasps. Topics Fiction.

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